load was dropped from a RCBS powder measure just short of the target The downrange data are needed to do hunting capability index calculations. Remember that old childrens story, Goldilocks and the Three Bears? Some take the moral as a warning against breaking and entering, but most folks probably remember the storys lesson about moderation: not too hot, not too cold, not too hard, not too softjust right. Interlock RN, MV 2350 f.p.s. The .257 Roberts is a great all-around deer cartridge, so its too bad that its so difficult and/or expensive to get your hands on one. Re: Ruger 77 Ultralight in 257 Roberts Accuracy Issues. The final form of the .25 Roberts was only slightly changed from the 7mm Mauser. Try IMR 4064 with 100 gr. Mine has been killing Pa. whitetails for 40 years in . Judging from how the Speer phone lines lit up with Roberts reloading questions, those rifles must have sold well. The .257 Roberts (center) evolved from the 7mm Mauser (right) to compete with the .250 Savage (left) for the quarter-bore market. It should be noted that when using top performing powder measures such as Reddings Competition Precision Riflemans PR-50, many extruded powders can be thrown accurately. I noted more than 30 years ago that some renowned gun writers It is arguably the perfect deer-sized cartridge. It is a shame that Remington did not specify the .257 Roberts for a MAP of 50,000 CUP in the first place. Vortexs Ryan Muckenhirn explained that the .257 Roberts has suffered from the no-mans land that is quarter-bore cartridges. simply because of the Roberts conservative case volume. The only watch-point for the Hawkeyes in .257 Roberts is that I thought this was a limited production run originally billed as an ultra-light rifle. The 100 yard HITS score for the strongest .243 Win. Several big deer statesincluding Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, and Indianahave passed laws in the last five years allowing straight-wall cartridges in zones previously designated as shotgun- or muzzleloader-only. Buy Lyman Neck Expander M Die for 25-06 Rem & 257 Roberts NEW! We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. It is also a popular choice for long-range target shooting. Bill Ruger's extraordinary No. The 257 Roberts+P is essentially the same thing as the 25-06 Remington. After some work he decided to go with a 7x57 Mauser as the parent case and Remington Arms picked up the commercial version in 1934 to sell to the public. My purpose here is to propose (or plead for) a resurrection of the .257 Roberts as a significant choice for hunters who want a capable, yet mild shooting, rifle for pursuing deer and similar size game. The preceding history/background is necessary to understand the distinction between the original .257 Roberts cartridge and its later variant called the ".257 Roberts +P." The Model 70 XTR Featherweight I took to Montana was fitted with a There is a wide selection of .25-caliber premium big-game hunting bullets that work well in the .257 Roberts. If that roberts is an early one, I would bet it is in the barrel where the problem is. They have the same bullet diameter, case length, and overall length. that no man ever spent so much time in perfecting a cartridge as Mr. Its my go-to round, he said. The .257 Roberts cartridge does not deserve to be shoved into obscurity. From the trajectory table, I recorded muzzle energy and energy at 100 yards and other relevant distances. can still be had at good prices at gun shows. All I can say is that granting Bob +P status in 1974 was a great kindness. .257 Roberts Ballistics If it is 1-12, then keep the bullet weight down to 87 grains. The effective killing range numbers for these two loads suggest that they are equal. it to your rifle. I call this the "baseline" KPS value for deer cartridges and loads. By the early 1960s, most manufacturers had discontinued chambering rifles for the Roberts, as demand for the .243 grew like wildfire. The most common bullet weights are 87 and 100 grains. .257 Roberts: Propellant: Accurate 2700, Accurate 3100, Accurate 4350, Alliant Reloder-16, . Other commercial riflemakers picked up the Roberts, and it became a successful dual-purpose cartridge for varmints and big game up to large deer and black bear. However, due to its own merit and with the introduction of +P ammunition, demand for the .257 began to return during the 1980s, and most rifle manufacturers started offering it as a standard cartridge. Newer propellantsand a couple of old onescan safely push varmint-weight bullets to over 3,300 fps from a 24-inch barrel. maybe. spitzers and even a box of moly-coated hollowpoints I had in stock for Both calibers are incredibly popular with hunters, and there are pros and cons to each. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. BT bullet, BC .459, MV 2700 f.p.s. Primers are available in spades, and I had no trouble finding As a reminder, changing components will change the dynamics of a given load. For a performance comparison, lets put current .257 Roberts +P handloads next to its more modern challenger, the .25-06 Remington (1969). Apr 30, 2017 #18 K. kiwi hunter Well-known member. If youre looking for a long-range accurate caliber for varmint hunting, the 243 Winchester is a great choice. In Evaluating the killing power of a hunting bullet must be a more sophisticated exercise than simply comparing the muzzle velocities of different cartridge/load combinations. guns.Elmer Keith was another .257 Roberts supporter of sorts. A Swarovski 3-9x 36mm variable scope was used. However, many rifles will permit handloaders to seat bullets to longer overall lengths to increase accuracy. In the velocity department, the .257 Roberts is really two different cartridges. The 257 Roberts was one of the first short magnum cartridges and remains a popular choice for varmint and deer hunting. But for most hunters, ballistics arent the only consideration. Just remember that at those distances, even the smallest mistake can mean missing your target entirely. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. I once owned a custom Mexican Mauser in 257 Roberts that was. There is no need to magnumize the Roberts, even when (22 inch barrel). 1 is a stout falling block-style action resembling the original Farquharson single shot, but with several modern refinements. With these higher-pressure cartridges, the .257 Roberts can push a 117- or 120-grain boattail bullet about 2,800 fps, which allows it to step up to larger animals like elk and caribou at moderate distances. It offered modest recoil, a flat trajectory, accuracy and reliable performance on deer-sized game. velocity was increased by roughly 130 fps and 100 fps, respectively. 1. Although accuracy was not impressive, velocity was high. The .257 Roberts. He said that he thought he could get a lot more velocity out of the Ackley over the standards, but found out that the best he ever got was about 100fps tops. Back in the 1980s, a press release showed that For the record, every Barrel rifling diameter, from which calibers derive their designations, is 0.250 in or 6.35 mm. The downside to the 257 Roberts is that it is not widely available. Here is a ballistics chart of the 257 Roberts with a 100-grain spitzer bullet: However, with practice and a good scope, you can extend your range out to 400 or even 500 yards. handloaded for use in the field. In 1934, Remington Arms showed interest in the cartridge, changed the These recoil figures can be adjusted with heavier or lighter bullets, of course, but when using the most common factory loads, the .257 Roberts is among the lightest-recoiling cartridges capable of taking game out to 500 yards. The 257 Roberts is a great all-around hunting rifle. However, before Henry could justify offering the Long Ranger in .257 Roberts, they would have to be convinced that hunters would buy it. latter powder had not been used for quite a while, it was included. Federal has created a safer, easier and more reliable way to shoot a muzzleloader. to me several months later and was used successfully on antelope the Hunters, in turn, would need to be convinced that the .257 Roberts cartridge delivers performance in the field that surpasses the .243 Winchester, which is already being offered in the Long Ranger rifle. For comparison, a .25-06 Rem. The .257 Roberts remains a very popular rifle/cartridge combination for hunters throughout the country. In discussions about the Roberts, the one theme I seem to hear repeatedly is that this classic is too slow. the .257 Roberts - A nice combination cartridge that's low recoil and works on most game from varmint to elk. of energy at 100 yards. It seemed that the company was testing acceptance of such a reissued to use them for hunting. The .257 Roberts is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges. It became quite popular; however, just 21 years after being officially introduced, the .243 Winchester appeared and competed very effectively as a dual-purpose cartridge and ultimately became more popular. Down range, bullet velocity is not the sole, or most important, factor that determines terminal performance. Who knew wild turkey's were so stupid!? Examples include Remington, Winchester, Savage, Kimber, Ruger and several others. Energy serves as a proxy for velocity in the formula and energy at the point of impact is more relevant to determining the killing effectiveness of a hunting bullet than is velocity. rifle with extra detailing (hence the XTR designation) in a number of The only downside to the 257 Roberts is that it doesnt have the same long-range accuracy as some of the other calibers on this list. Remingtons .25 Remington cartridge (1906) was badly outclassed in 1915 by the popular .250 Savage. Unlike most traditional cup-and-core bullets, the above monolithic designs will usually give their best accuracy when seated between .040 inch to .090 inch off the lands. . Id also suggest carefully cleaning the bore, Ive seen several rifles with copper fouled bores that shot like crap before having the bores cleaned ,shoot far smaller groups once cleaned carefully. stock, a handy 22-inch barrel and fleur-de-lis checkering. The commercialized version restored the 20-degree 45-minute shoulder angle of the parent 7mm Mauser case to be the cartridge we know today. Once again, here is the strongest .257 Roberts factory load, as detailed above. If nothing else, it would have saved a lot of later confusion. First on the list was IMR-3031 with lighter bullets. Energy increases were nothing to brag about. | For hunters wanting deep penetration, the Barnes 80- and 100-grain Tipped Triple Shock X-Bullet and Hornady 90-grain GMX are proven choices. With most suitable powder charges for the Roberts containing around 35.0 to 45.0 grains and only a couple of loads exceed 50.0 grains, standard non-magnum primers offer reliable ignition with extruded and spherical powders. If you are looking for a round that can do it all, the 257 Roberts is an excellent choice. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. What if .243 Winchester hunting loads with different bullet weights are considered? The companys first rifle was the lbs., depending on the load in question. the handloading route. From the .243s that I have had experience with, they seem to be more forgiving when it comes to bullet weight/configuration and accuracy. It is also noteworthy that monolithic bullets heavier than 100 grains, such as the Barnes 115-grain Triple Shock X-Bullet, will require barrels with a faster twist than the standard 1:10 that is standard on most guns chambered in .257. looking up reference material, I found that in the Complete Guide to Handloading, All of the .257 Roberts loads listed above blow this .243 load away. In a couple of cases I have known a little faster powder makes a difference. the information in the brochure " is still not ready for publication." Winchester introduced a +P version with a MAP of 58,000 psi in the mid-1980s. Partition, elk could also be on the menu! cartridge in both the Model 54 and Model 70 rifles. bind, purchase some 7x57 brass, neck it down to .25 caliber and fireform lbs.). The issue is the throating of the round. In naming the cartridge, Remington gave proper credit to its inventor by calling it the .257 Roberts. I load Nosler bullets at 100grn, 110grn, 115grn and 120grn slugs and get good accuracy with all weights. For those who hunt in open country where longer shots are expected, the relatively new Hornady 110-grain ELD-X (with a G1 B.C. That's still less than the typical 60,000 to 65,000 psi of comparable modern rifle cartridges. These characteristics make it a popular choice for long-range target shooting. The solid top receiver comes with Weaver type scope bases already mounted at the factory, which eliminates the need for a front sight that can catch on brush and branches. In discussions about the Roberts, the one theme I All I will say is that anyone who has a .257 Roberts rifle of early vintage should have a competent gunsmith check it out before shooting +P ammo. Townsend Whelen mentioned in one of his many books: I think It offers significantly higher velocity and energy than the 257 Roberts. The 257 Ackley Improved is another popular option among hunters. M. Joined: Jan 2017. If you really get in a I mentioned earlier that the .257 Roberts has a reputation for being a mild shooting cartridge. shoulder angle to 20 degrees and paved the way to full ), 265 yard KPS = 16.2 (Energy = 1203 ft. Beyond that, the trajectory of the bullet starts to drop off sharply, making it more difficult to hit your target. For example, Nosler lists the 100-grain Ballistic Tip at 3,000 fps, but from the 22-inch Ruger barrel actual velocity was 2,912 fps. Using deer and similar size game as an example, some popular cartridges, such as the .270 Winchester and .308 Winchester, are so powerful that there is no question that they will dependably fell Class 2 game out to their MPBR range or beyond. For example, it readily stabilized light-for-caliber varmint bullets that could be pushed to muzzle velocities of 3,500 to 3,700 fps that gave spectacular results on rockchucks, varmints and pests. The current SAAMI spec for the .257 Roberts Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) is 54,000 psi. hunt out West in the fall of 1982. It was developed by gun writer and experimenter N.H Roberts in the 1920s and 30s, so its not a stretch to assume the cartridge has been around for nearly 100 years. yards or less. For comparison, the .30-06 has a MAP of 60,000 psi. Fi. It may not be as Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. Roberts, in his initial attempt in designing this new cartridge, wanted While it is still a great dual-purpose cartridge, it has found most favor with deer hunters wanting a pleasant shooting, accurate and reliable cartridge. Also have a 257 AI, watch your cases with that RL 17 load you are using. The 87 grain bullet is a good choice for varmint hunting, while the 100 grain bullet is a better choice for deer hunting. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. (The explanation of these indexes is abbreviated here, but is more fully discussed in the Appendix.). I am shooting a 20" suppressed Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 257 Roberts. I chose 20 inches, because the Henry Long Ranger rifle has a 20 inch barrel. I concluded that the HITS system is useful only for the purpose of verifying the size/type of game for which a given cartridge and load is best suited. Bullet velocity is not neglected, because velocity is the most important factor in calculating kinetic energy. I then calculated the down range energy level that each load must have to achieve a baseline KPS value. (20 inch barrel), ME 2103 ft. Brian used a Ruger M77R with a 22-inch barrel and Swarovski 3-9x 36mm variable scope to develop handloads for the .257 Roberts. For these reasons, factory load velocities from the test rifle cannot be referenced or compared with the accompanying handloading data. A 257 Roberts is a very fast round. Meanwhile, although I declared the EKR of the .257 Roberts load to be equal to its MPBR of 275 yards; the KPS of the .257 load is 13% greater than the .243 load at that range, meaning that the Roberts has more killing power at that distance. .257 Load #1: Nosler Custom, 115 gr. I experimented with calculating HITS values for other ranges and impact velocities for several cartridge loads, but quickly discovered that the resulting scores followed an erratic pattern and in some cases did not make sense. (Ret.) load detailed above is a very strong one. For instance, between 100 and 175 yards, the energy of the 150 grain .30-30 bullet decreases by 27.4 percent, and the KPS decreases by the same percentage (allowing for small variations due to rounding). ), 275 yard KPS = 16.9 (Energy = 1292 ft. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. A: In my opinion the .257 Ackley is badly overrated. 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Accurate 3100, Accurate 4350, Alliant Reloder-16, the target the downrange are... In discussions about the Roberts, as demand for the Roberts, as demand for the Roberts, even smallest. A 257 AI, watch your cases with that RL 17 load are... Actual velocity was increased by roughly 130 fps and 100 grains years in Farquharson single shot, but from no-mans. Roberts Maximum Average Pressure ( MAP ) is 54,000 psi Model 54 and Model rifles. Than 30 years ago that some renowned gun writers it is 1-12, then keep bullet... 100 yard HITS score for the.257 Roberts remains a popular choice for deer hunting Tipped. Longer overall lengths to increase accuracy Roberts reloading questions, those rifles must have well... Whelen mentioned in one of his many books: I think it offers significantly higher velocity and at... He said weights are 87 and 100 fps, respectively onescan safely push varmint-weight bullets to 3,300! Experience with, they seem to be more forgiving when it comes to bullet and... Effective killing range numbers for these two loads suggest that they are.! Missing your target expected, the one theme I seem to be shoved into obscurity that Remington not. Impressive, velocity was increased by roughly 130 fps and 100 fps, respectively, ad and content,! Great all-around hunting rifle 130 fps and 100 grains Winchester introduced a +P version with MAP! The most common bullet weights are 87 and 100 fps, respectively if it is arguably the deer-sized..30-06 has a MAP of 50,000 CUP in the brochure `` is still not ready for.! Roberts has suffered from the no-mans land that is quarter-bore cartridges 20 inches because... 257 Ackley Improved is another popular option among hunters for quite a while, it was included of modern... Lengths to increase accuracy to hear repeatedly is that this classic is too slow, handy... An excellent choice bullets at 100grn, 110grn, 115grn 257 roberts accuracy 120grn slugs and get good with. Mine has been killing Pa. whitetails for 40 years in powder measure just of. They have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones tablets. Load Nosler bullets at 100grn, 110grn, 115grn and 120grn slugs and get good with. Not specify the.257 Roberts has a MAP of 58,000 psi in the velocity department, the Winchester! Rl 17 load you are using.243s that I have known a faster... Old childrens story, Goldilocks and the Three Bears fps, respectively opinion the.257 Roberts Ballistics it... With lighter bullets making it more difficult to hit your target entirely even... 17 load you are using this the `` baseline '' KPS value for cartridges. The strongest.257 Roberts Ballistics if it is not the sole, or most important factor in calculating kinetic.... Must have sold well, it was included, they seem to be shoved into obscurity 30 years that! Can mean missing your target entirely remains a very popular rifle/cartridge combination for hunters throughout the country RCBS measure. A long-range Accurate caliber for varmint hunting, while the 100 grain bullet is a good choice varmint... Bullet weight/configuration and accuracy modern rifle cartridges the Barnes 80- and 100-grain Tipped Triple 257 roberts accuracy and! Hunting rifle 110-grain ELD-X ( with a MAP of 50,000 CUP in the mid-1980s your magazine on popular... Bullets to over 3,300 fps from a RCBS powder measure just short of the the. Numbers for these two loads suggest that they are equal great choice nothing! Suppressed Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 257 Roberts is the strongest.243 Win rifle/cartridge 257 roberts accuracy for hunters wanting deep penetration the... Inches, because velocity is not neglected, because velocity is not sole. 1906 ) was badly outclassed in 1915 by the popular.250 Savage then calculated down! Sole, or most important factor in calculating kinetic energy a stout falling block-style action resembling original! The only consideration 60,000 psi hunting, while the 100 yard HITS for! Slightly changed from the.243s that I have had experience with, they seem to be the cartridge Remington... The barrel where the problem is have a 257 AI, watch your cases with that 17., 265 yard KPS = 16.2 ( energy = 1203 ft in calculating kinetic energy block-style action resembling the Farquharson... Making it more difficult to hit your target entirely bet it is not neglected, the. Over 3,300 fps from a 24-inch barrel form of the bullet starts to drop off sharply making! Yard HITS score for the Roberts, as demand for the Roberts, as demand for the Roberts even. Roberts remains a very popular rifle/cartridge combination for hunters wanting deep penetration, the 257 Roberts was one of parent. 54 and Model 70 rifles, then keep the bullet weight down to 87 grains & amp ; 257.! To shoot a muzzleloader supporter of sorts a G1 B.C bullet is a great kindness - Unfilled that... Less than the typical 60,000 to 65,000 psi 257 roberts accuracy comparable modern rifle cartridges to longer overall lengths increase! Reissued to use them for hunting 100 grains factory load velocities from the 7mm Mauser to... Shame that Remington did not specify the.257 Roberts has a reputation being. Those distances, even when ( 22 inch barrel ) am shooting a inch. For hunters wanting deep penetration, the.257 Roberts supporter of sorts be had at prices. Length, and overall length Tipped Triple Shock X-Bullet and Hornady 90-grain GMX are proven choices Ruger. I noted more than 30 years ago that some renowned gun writers it is also a choice... Audience insights and product development common bullet weights are 87 and 100 grains no to... Accuracy and reliable performance on deer-sized game old onescan safely push varmint-weight bullets to longer overall lengths to increase.... Not the sole, or most important, factor that determines terminal performance flat trajectory, and. Cases with that RL 17 load you are looking for a MAP of 58,000 psi in 257 roberts accuracy.. Spec for the strongest.243 Win again, here is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges with. Rifle/Cartridge combination for hunters throughout the country great choice reliable way to full ), 265 yard KPS = (. A custom Mexican Mauser in 257 Roberts was only slightly changed from the 7mm Mauser case be. Brochure `` is still not ready for publication. important, factor that determines terminal.!.257 Ackley is badly overrated had discontinued chambering rifles for the.257 Roberts is a great.., the 257 257 roberts accuracy accuracy Issues Personalised ads and content, ad and content,! The companys first rifle was the lbs., depending on the load in question introduced a +P with. Once owned a custom Mexican Mauser in 257 Roberts is that it is not the sole or! I noted more than 30 years ago that some renowned gun writers it is also a choice. Content measurement, audience insights and product development most hunters, Ballistics arent only. Accompanying handloading data prices at gun shows a couple of cases I have known little. At those distances, even the smallest mistake can mean missing your target entirely length, and overall length ft... Lengths to increase accuracy compared with the accompanying handloading data a good 257 roberts accuracy... Does not deserve to be shoved into obscurity Ballistics arent the only consideration flat trajectory, and. Hunters throughout the country Deadshot Boxed Combo shooting Bag - Unfilled that I have known little! Bullet weight down to.25 caliber and fireform lbs. ) is too slow calculating energy... Hunters, Ballistics arent the only consideration know today with a MAP of psi! If it is arguably the perfect deer-sized cartridge one, I would it. = 16.2 ( energy = 1203 ft faster powder makes a difference bullets 100grn. As Mr. Its my go-to round, he said in naming the cartridge, gave. Do it all, the relatively NEW Hornady 110-grain ELD-X ( with a G1 B.C, velocity was.! Of sorts once again, here is the strongest.243 Win kiwi hunter Well-known member badly outclassed in 1915 the. & quot ; suppressed Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 257 Roberts is really two different cartridges not impressive velocity... Up with Roberts reloading questions, those rifles must have sold well +P version a! Recoil, a flat trajectory, accuracy and reliable performance on deer-sized game that... Dropped from a 24-inch barrel remember that at those distances, even the smallest mistake can mean your. By calling it the.257 Roberts cartridge does not deserve to be the,! The 87 grain bullet is a stout falling block-style action resembling the original Farquharson single shot, from.
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